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an Interview with Ihsahn
by Adam Kohrman
I’m a young guy. I didn’t grow up and watch metal grow into its myriad of subgenres. At the tender age of 13, while on vacation in the Grand Canyon, our hotel’s chef overheard me raving about the brutality and heaviness of Pantera. Disgusted, he confronted me and mentioned dozens of bands that would resurface in my CD collection years later. Immortal, Dissection, Morbid Angel, and the band he referred to as “the best in the world,” Emperor.
Months later, I came across the name again when researching the recording process behind Immortal’s seminal Pure Holocaust. “Emperor.” There the name was again. The supposedly legendary band that the chef said was the best in the world was apparently one of the most important bands in this obscure form of music called Black Metal. As a self proclaimed student of metal, I needed to get out and buy the album I had been hearing about: In the Nightside Eclipse. After the purchase, I popped the album into my stereo. From start to finish, I had never heard cacophony and majesty blended so perfectly.
My Emperor journey came full circle when earlier this summer, I was privileged enough to interview the man behind the brilliance, Ihsahn. Hearing his Norwegian accent on the other end of my landline phone was surreal. He was as down to earth as I had imagined, and eager to talk about whatever I threw at him...
Ihsahn: Hello, this is Ihsahn.
Adam: Hello Ihsahn!
Ihsahn: Firstly, I ‘m sorry for being a few minutes late, but you know how these things can go.
Adam: It’s okay, Ihsahn, it’s a pleasure. Now, one thing I want to talk about is your new album, angL,” (pronounced “angel”), “that is how you pronounce it correctly?
Ihsahn: Yes
Adam: Now it’s definitely, like your previous solo album, The Adversary, is a great departure, well, maybe not a great departure, but certainly a departure, from the Emperor records. What influenced you or guided you to change that direction?
Ihsahn: Well, I mean, since I quit Emperor in 2001, I did a lot of performing non-metal music in my other band Peccatum. It was a totally different approach to things, so when I decided to do a solo album like this, I decided to make it me doing just metal. The Adversary was really just me trying out all the subgenres within metal that I hadn’t really had a go at yet. But this album builds, on The Adversary of course, but it is also more of a contemporary album of where I am. This is how I play metal in 2008.
Adam: You can definitely hear more progressive influences, and just experimenting with non-metal. There’s a lot of neo-classical, and even, I would venture to say, some jazz influences in there.
Ihsahn: Yeah. I guess, and these are things that, I mean, I tend to listen to everything that is not metal, you know, when I listen to music. And if I listen to metal, it’s usually just going back to the old classics that I grew up with.
Adam: What would some of those old classics be, if you mind?
Ihsahn: Well…like…eh… Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, King Diamond.
Adam: Of course.
Ihsahn: (laughs) Morbid Angel, Bathory.
Adam: Well, when you were in Emperor, the sound that you helped create, which people now commonly refer to as the second wave of black metal had a very strong emphasis on minimalism and traditionalism. Did you feel that you were stifled or held back creatively with that scene?
Ihsahn: Not necessarily. I mean, the band we had prior to Emperor were kind of more technical death metal. As far as me being 14, 15, you know it was technical death metal. (laughs). And we used keyboards and all that, but when we started Emperor, we were kind of going back to basic. You know, the first Emperor demo was a just a four track recording with no keyboards, it was very straightforward. It went by early Bathory, Celtic Frost, Hellhammer. But by the time we did the first EP, we sort of brought in the keyboards again. I wanted to…uh…kind of utilize the kind of orchestral effects. We listened to a lot of, a lot of soundtracks at the time too, and were very inspired by the soundtracks of The Omen, and all that is very, very powerful.
Adam: So classic horror, like The Omen and all those other films had a great influence on the sound of Emperor. What other films, well I’m a film nut. I love cinema, so what other films, I’m curious, influenced the Emperor sound.
Ihsahn: Well, I guess. I can’t remember all them. I just remember we listened to a lot of soundtracks. You know, it was all on tape back then, sort of compilation tapes of all things. But in particular, because I kind of missed it, not so long ago, I bought The Omen soundtrack off of iTunes, just to have it again. But I guess…after a while, there was a bit of a Bram Stoker’s Dracula thing, you know, what can I say.
Adam: Yeah.
Ihsahn: Well, they were not necessarily all horror films. You know, it’s just that film music just has this huge whole of it, this bombastic sound to it. That was very big. And I think you can year that in the first album.
Adam: Oh, certainly.
Ihsahn: We were trying to create this huge sound.
Adam: Yeah, a very majestic, huge, grand sound, I’d say.
Ihsahn: Yeah.
 Adam: Do you still keep in touch with the other members of Emperor, like Samoth, and so on?
Ihsahn: Yeah. Samoth, I talk or email with him, almost daily.
Adam: (laughs) Okay, so you’re still good friends:
Ihsahn: Yeah, yeah. He lives half an hour away, so I don’t see him that much. But I mean, how many years is it? Seven years since I quit Emperor. But there’s still Emperor related things happening.
Adam: You stated that you’ve been listening to a lot of non-metal that has influenced your Ihsahn solo project. What would say the state of the black metal scene that you helped create is now?
Ihsahn: Well, I…I couldn’t really say because I…it was always Samoth and the other guys who, in particular him, who were very good at the tape trading, and you know, the letter exchanging, and this whole kind of underground scene being in touch with everybody. I tried to tag along, but I never got around to answering the letters and I was too busy just sitting there with an electric organ and my guitar, you know, playing. (laughs). So I was never any good at following things in a collective way. So, and it has really not helped becoming older, and having my own studio. (Laughs). So, I have a hard time following the scene, and again, having done this type of metal for half of my life now, I think it’s important and necessary for me to seek musical pleasure elsewhere.
Adam: Yeah, certainly.
Ihsahn: When I listen to new metal, especially things that are in the same genre that I work with, it always gets into sort of “work mode…” to see how I would have done it differently and this and that. But for example, listening now to Radiohead, I have no idea how they go about making it sound like that.
Adam: Yeah, they were one of my favorite bands prior to metal, and remain one of them today.
Ihsahn: I think Radiohead, in my book, they’re one band that I think have the most…integrity.
Adam: Oh, I agree, certainly.
Ihsahn: And both me and my wife are huge fans of Thom Yorke’s solo album and Jonny Greenwood’s soundtracks. It’s played very much in this house.(laughs)
Adam: How has the reaction been within the black metal scene, within your former band mates to the new direction taken in Ihsahn and your new projects, like Peccatum and such?
Ihsahn: From the band mates or the scene?
Adam: Either one.
Ihsahn: I haven’t given much though to it, either way. I mean, for the other guys in Emperor, they’re there for the sound of it, mostly…. But in the scene, I guess there are those who enjoy that I do new things but there’s the other big half that would like me doing the same things I was doing as a teenager.
Adam: Yeah, well that happens to so many bands. They work on their new influences and try to develop, and there’s part of their fan base that just can’t accept it.
Ihsahn: And it’s kind of understandable. As I said, when I listen to metal, I tend to go my classics. It’s not necessarily because those are better albums, you know, objectively. It’s just that I put so much time, and memories, feelings, and growing up into them. That’s why they mean so much to me. I’m sure that your music and your experience listening to music from you know, your younger days, and you can experience even smells.
Adam: Oh yeah. Most definitely.
Ihsahn: You know, from the time you actually listened to them.
Adam: It takes you back the room you were in when you first heard the album or bought the album.
Ihsahn: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So I’m like that, so I kind of understand that. Of course, as a musician, it’s frustrating because I know I’m a much better musician, and songwriter, and arranger, and producer at the age of 32 than I was at 16 and 17.
Adam: I think that makes a lot of sense. I think most musicians would say that too. When you stick with something for so many years, you’re guaranteed to get better at it, no matter what you’re doing.
Ihsahn: And also, having done black metal kind of when, we were lucky to be part of that whole wave where we happened to be one of the first ones. Of course, Emperor is bigger than when we actually played in a band. So, it kind of had a life of its own. And you know, I’m proud of having been part of that. But at the same time, it’s of course frustrating to be your own “little brother” in a way because everything I do will be compared to Emperor, regardless. You know, I’m not that old, and I’ve still…you know there’s always Audiospawn or Robbie Williams, who made it even bigger as a solo artist. (Laughs)
Adam: (Laughs) Yeah of course.
Ihsahn: And of course, it wouldn’t make any sense for me continuing if I thought I had my peak at 18. So I still feel that my best is yet to come.
Adam: Are there any current metal bands in the five years or so that you really do enjoy and keep your interest in metal alive?
Ihsahn: (sighs) Well, I guess my both (laughs) Well, I’ve heard newer music. We get sent stuff to talk about with the company and everything and there’s some cool things coming our way. But, I don’t know…it’s uh…
Adam: You’ve moved on as a music fan?
Ihsahn: Yeah, I guess, and having a career like this since I was sixteen has probably formed me as well. Anyway, that it’s harder for me to actually listen to music, and in particular because I have a great interest in music production, and technicalities of equipment and all that. There’s all these things about new bands and microphones, and all that. So I guess I have a kind of nerdy approach to the whole music thing. That’s why sometimes, I just have to put on some Diamonda Galas to remind myself that’s it’s the energy you put into it that it’s really about.
 Adam: Another thing I wanted to talk to you about is your personal philosophy and ideology. I was reading Lords of Chaos again recently, and I’m sure you know the interview with you, where you talk about your personal belief of Satanism. Um, do you still personally identify as a Satanist?
Ihsahn: Well, I have absolutely no idea what I talked about in…(laughs)
Adam: (Laughs)
Ihsahn: It’s such a long time ago, and I never read Lords of Chaos.
Adam: Oh….Well…Uh…
Ihsahn: So before I answer that, what the hell was I talking about?
Adam: (Laughs). Well, you were talking about the ideal of individuality, or individualism expressed in Satanism, and the idea…uhh….Well one thing I wanted to talk to you about is how has your personal ideology, as a Satanist influenced your music, and as a person?
Ihsahn: Well, of course the whole…Satanist…thing. Which, you know, I don’t mind the term, but it’s just so watered out, you know it’s like…You could say you’re a Christian too, but it doesn’t say anything about you being Catholic, of course it doesn’t say that, but you can be a phonetic Christian or you can be a “it suits me for the day” type of Christian.
Adam: Yeah.
Ihsahn: So, it’s kind of the same. You know with the term “Satanist,” people get the impression that you are part of some collectively formed ideology. Whereas, in my book, it’s kind of, quite the opposite, that it’s an “anti-religion.” And that’s what I find so funny about this debate. Here’s a very simple example: the whole example of “true” and “not true” black metal.
Adam: Yeah, that’s actually something you talked about in your interview.
Ihsahn: Because what my idea was that this whole “battle” was based on “do what thy will be the whole of the law,” you know the Crowley thing. And people are happy about that…as long as I do…do the things they like. But when I do whatever the hell I want, and it doesn’t really suit them, like for example I’m not doing music sounding like In the Nightside Eclipse, certainly it’s not “true” anymore. (laughs). So, the whole idea of creating rules for what is “true” and “not true” black metal is kind of besides the point. And that’s sort of where I’m coming from, and that’s what I bring up in my lyrics too, not at all to push my views on everyone else. That’s also sort of a contradiction to what I’m saying, but just as much for myself and reminding myself that I have these thoughts in my head. For both of these solo records, I was very much inspired by Nietzsche and in particular “The Reevaluation of All Values,” which I interpret to say, which I find fascinating, is reminding oneself to not stagnating (sic) and not taking anything for granted, and also being able to, as an individual, to try to achieve freedom, you know, the freedom of the individual. You also have to take responsibility for creating your own moral values based on what’s in your heart and not what some poet or direction tells you or what some religious direction tells you to do. You actually have to take responsibility for that yourself. And, uh… I think that is why Nietzsche said “God is Dead.”
Adam: Yeah.
Ihsahn: So, you know, it’s time to take responsibility to yourself, and most of all to take responsibility to take out, you know, the best of your potential as a human being.
Adam: So it’s… your personal ideology, whether it deserves the term “Satanist” or not, it’s a rejection of conformist values and promoting the morals of an individual.
Ihsahn: Yeah. I’m very skeptical to the collective mind, and the collective truth, and the common good. (laughs) Because I think, you know, the evils of the world are hardly ever caused by the solitary black metal guy. It’s usually those in the name of good.
Adam: Yeah. That’s a good point. Historically, the greatest evils have been done by those who think they’re working for the good, or the common good. 
Ihsahn: There’s nothing more dangerous than a person saying “God is on my side”
Adam: Oh, I agree. Now do you think that your ideology is reflected, well it was certainly reflected…well let me ask you this: In the early days, when you were starting black metal, in what is now known as the Inner Circle, was that view commonly reflected or what sort of Satanic beliefs were held in that circle?
Ihsahn: I think that in that circle it was very much, the whole “Circle” thing is sort of a media created thing in itself, but everyone has just adapted to it because everyone thought it was cool that it got that type of attention. The term “the Inner Black Circle” made it sound more influential and more organized. And, I guess, apart from Euronymous, who was 25, I think, the others of us were teenagers for the most part.
Adam: Yeah.
Ihsahn: So it was really just a…uhh…a lot of people searching for different things and sort of gathering around this uh…collective…it’s very hard to explain because…we took things for granted. It was about shock… and everything around you. You know, that’s how it is when you’re a teenager. There wasn’t a collected feeling on what Satan was either; it was a gathering of people over, you know, like-mindedness.
Adam: Okay, yeah. I can see that.
Ihsahn: So the whole unified, collective thing---I never thought it was there. So, to be perfectly honest, I was an outsider even in the so called black metal scene. But from my band mates, and of course knowing a lot of cool people within the scene, one of the few people that I actually connected with and still keep very much in touch with today is Garm from Ulver, who I think felt exactly the same way, that you know, he was also part of it, but I don’t think he really had a need or felt to fit into that whole thing. (Laughs)
Adam: Well, one of the things that I’ve noticed and picked up is that people who, those of you, like you and he, who had this sort of, almost an outsider perspective within that, whether or it actually existed or not, the early black metal bands or that “circle” are the ones who are still around and making good music today, in my opinion.
Ihsahn: Oh thank you. (laughs)
Adam: (Laughs) The other ones have sort of faded into obscurity or sadly passed on. But do you think that that I ideology of yours is reflected widely in metal today or music today, apart from your own work.
 Ihsahn: At some point, it really, it probably is, but I, I’m embarrassed to say, I have not paid the respect I should to my contemporary colleagues apart from stuff that I really enjoy from before, and with Opeth and people doing things like that. I associate with Opeth and Mikael. That’s why I wanted him on the album too because I think that, we make different music and we’ve had different careers but we’re about the same age, we’ve been doing this for about the same amount of time, and we’ve kind of been friends since the early 90s too. And he has this…Opeth never really followed any trend or anything like that. They’ve kept on doing their thing, regardless. So there’s something at heart, and I think it’s very much Mikael because I think he writes about all of Opeth’s material. That’s what he’s concerned about. You know, and I think like it’s that in myself too. I don’t really have a choice how to do this, you know. It’s more of a driving force beyond what I necessarily control all the time.
Adam: Opeth, I mean is a band, that at least stateside that the fan reaction towards has been very divided. You have some very enthusiastic metal fans who passionately dislike them and then some who think they’re one of the greatest bands ever. Why do you think that is?
Ihsahn: Well, Opeth. I find it strange that people in any way, well maybe it doesn’t connect with you, and not like it that way. But how can you passionately hate (laughs) a band? To me that is very strange. On a practical issue, however, I can see that my time is kind of up. I did call a little late, so if there is something you would like to cover.
Adam: Actually, that was pretty much it. I’d like to thank you very much. This has been a great interview.
Ihsahn: Well thank you. It’s been good talking to you and thank you for your support.
Adam: You’re very welcome. I’ll be sure to recommend angL to people.
Ihsahn: Well thank you. Well, you seem to like it so.
Adam: Yeah, very much so. It’s a quite interesting album. I like it a lot.
Ihsahn: Thank you.
Adam: Well anyways, thank you very much. Take care, Ihsahn.
Ihsahn. You too, and maybe we’ll talk again when I do another one. (Laughs)
Adam: Okay, well hopefully so. I look forward to that!
Ihsahn: Okay, we’ll pick up the thread then. Bye.
Adam: Bye.
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